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[Music]

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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepare to

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have your paradigm shifted in the truths

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questioned and now shattered reality and

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welcome to shattered reality podcast

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this is for Russia and this is our 56th

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episode today is October 3rd 2017 and

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I'm going to be introducing our guest

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shortly but I do have a couple of

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announcements the first announcement is

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unfortunately due to unforeseen

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circumstances my partner in crime here

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miss Kate Valentine is unable to make

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today's podcast this is a first she's

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been with us for all the other podcasts

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even the live podcast from up New York

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State she was there even though it was

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me speaking primarily so this is a first

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for shattered reality podcast and we

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shall miss her today but she will be

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back in two weeks ok so I want to start

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the show with a letter that we received

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from one of our regular listeners this

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listener is so much of a regular

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listener that he has been listening

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since before we started he was listening

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to the Kate Valentine UFO show and he

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always posted under the name of Freeman

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and so that's what I'm going to call him

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now and I want to just read his letter

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because very happy to receive this

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letter from him it says hi Faria your

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recent guests have been something of a

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coup especially dr. Roger Nelson and

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Brenda done

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I tried posting a comment related to dr.

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Nelson but it didn't appear I think I've

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had problems in the past and posted on

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the

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alternate site episode 55 was very good

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too I know it is UFO related but Kate

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mentioned the difficulty in obtaining

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evidence she may remember that I was

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appealing against the air combat

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commands change in policy that stopped

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public access to the 84th our ADEs radar

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data via FOIA foi a I'm still waiting

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for an answer and they quote misplaced

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unquote my appeal two or three times

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along the way however primary radar data

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radar data are available from across the

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US from the FAA and dr. Valle mentioned

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on another show that satellite imagery

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can be purchased from specific companies

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efforts are also being made to create

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monitoring stations with cameras and

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other sensors so perhaps the odds are

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improving that good quality data for an

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unusual incident will be recorded and

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available to the public

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someday soon best Freeman and Friedman

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is of course an expert in things radar

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and he is from the United Kingdom Great

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Britain where we have a number of people

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who listen to our show thank goodness

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well so if any of you listeners are

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having problems posting to our website

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please try and get in touch via another

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means for instance my webs my email

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address for chat for russia comm fa h ru

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sha at furusho coms same spelling so in

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any case we're happy to get letters we

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love to get letters from our listeners

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but now we are going to proceed with our

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show and today I am very very happy to

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welcome on to the show

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David Booher who has written a wonderful

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book called no return and this is the

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Jerry

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Erwin story and we're gonna welcome

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David now David are you there

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yes I am hi David so nice to have you on

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your book I have to say is something of

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a rarity in a variety of ways for the

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UFO field we have had some very

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excellent ufo-related guests on like our

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last guest dr. Irina and Irina Scott to

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be clear dr. Irina Scott and she wrote a

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wonderful UFO book what kind of a

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compendium a lot of stuff that happened

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around the the Ohio area and further out

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but leaving her aside for a moment it

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has been my observation that a lot of

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books written about UFOs by perfectly

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good people and kind of people that are

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regulars in the field boy to those boys

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need an editor but your prose was

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extraordinarily good so perhaps you

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would tell us a little bit about your

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background I I have a copy of the book

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but there's not much of a bio there

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could you give us a little bit about

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your background David well sure yeah

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there's not much in the Bible because I

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honestly couldn't think of much to say I

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don't have any of any real credentials

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to write about this subject it's just

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something that I got interested in and

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in fact I didn't even set out to write a

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book

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I just got interested in this story and

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decided to start investigating it in it

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and that as I went along I realized that

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there was enough here or to make it into

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a book you use wrote the story very well

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your your command of the English

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language you were the way that you went

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through things in a clear minded way

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verbiage very excellent but I would say

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your you also sounded like a forensic

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investigator like a and I know that

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you're not a policeman I don't think you

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are that you're I believe somewhere in

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the medical field is that correct but my

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background I have done a lot of

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different things but probably the most

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consistent thing over the last 20 years

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is in the field of rehab and injury

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injury rehab and sports rehab as a

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orthopedic massage therapist well that's

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a wonderful that's a wonderful field and

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I'm sure that you're in high demand

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there but what as I say is quite

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remarkable you managed to connect with

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one of the Great's of our ufology field

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which is dr. Jacques Vallee and also I

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saw mark Rocha who is a familiar name

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mentioned in the in the thank yous at

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the back of the book but you're kind of

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an outsider to the UFO field and like I

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think that we people inside the field

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need more people like you okay that's

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that's my real really my main

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observation a few more things about you

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that we would like to know and let our

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listeners know is have you seen ever a

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UFO where did you get your interest in

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UFOs I guess I don't have I've seen some

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odd things but I could there's nothing I

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could really say was a UFO for sure and

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I guess it's just ever since I could

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remember I've been fascinated by things

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of an unexplained what we call

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unexplained you know you have Falls

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paranormal stuff well ditto on that

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David didn't what happened

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that's what we're all

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about here but you you really rocked

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this book you really rocked the book and

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of course I have one thing to say about

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what you just said and that is that

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something that you can't identify in the

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sky is a UFO it may not be a visitor

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from outer space or another dimension

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but it sure is

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a UFO just by way of being unidentified

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right yeah that's a good point and by

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that definition I would say yes but the

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reason I hesitate is because I'm it

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there could be for the things that I saw

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it's possible that there was a mundane

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explanation that I just but that I

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didn't wasn't able to figure out sure so

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I haven't seen anything that that I

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would that I would just tend to think

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was a or at least I wouldn't talk about

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it as something that's a genuine unknown

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because I just don't know enough you

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know about what I saw us all well I I

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understand that for sure something on

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the last show about my being up in

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Providence Rhode Island for the fire

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water festival I think it's called I

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might have a word off on that but a

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couple thousand people up and down the

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river in Providence Rhode Island and you

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know they have a fire a fire festival on

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the water board a fire and there it's

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it's it's very nice and I've been to it

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a couple of three times and this time I

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looked up and I saw something moving

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erratically stopping and starting in the

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sky and I pointed it out to some people

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around me they were not interested they

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thought oh it must be it must be a drone

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so I think it's getting harder and

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harder to identify UFOs I went ahead and

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took my iPhone out and took a couple of

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three pictures of it and of course they

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the pictures didn't come out but it you

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know there's no I make no claims that it

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was the

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you know what was what am I looking for

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them Ming from Hmong let's put it that

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way or some other extraterrestrial

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visitor but it's hard to get people even

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interested in looking up in the sky

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these days everybody's looking down at

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their iPhones and other things but what

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I think we'd like to do right now is

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maybe you could give us the general the

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basic story behind your book now your

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book is much more than the basic story

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you really go into investigating things

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but I think for our listeners who will

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many of whom will want to read our of

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your book from our part podcasts we get

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I get notes from people wow I read that

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book you were speaking about so people

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do go out and buy the book so give us a

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short synopsis ok well this this was a

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story that it's about an event that

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occurred in 1959 and the story that was

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that was published the full story was

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published in 1962 by two very well-known

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UFO researchers of that period named

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coral and Jim Lorenzen who were the

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founders of April the aerial phenomenon

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research organization they were the ones

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who were investigating this case

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personally and they finally published

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their full story in 1962 since then it's

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appeared in a summary has appeared in

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two of Jacques Valley's books which is

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where I ran across it but it's since

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1962

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there has been no additional

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investigation of this story Stan so what

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I'm about to this part that I'm gonna

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share right now is what was known from

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the original investigation before I got

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started

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in my own investigation it's about so

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the name of this it it's about a young

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soldier whose name is Jerry Irwin who

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was driving back to his base in Texas in

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late winter of 1959 southern Utah and

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he's on a pretty kind of a lonesome I

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guess not very well-traveled Highway at

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least when he was there mm-hmm

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he was the only car around when he's at

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night and he saw this brilliant object

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coming out of the sky and it was it was

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definitely strange enough that he pulled

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his car over to watch and was out of his

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vehicle before it went down behind a

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nearby Ridge where a hitha hello

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although we did yeah can you hear me I

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think he went out there for a second so

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it went down behind in nearby Ridge

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could we start up from that point please

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yes and and where he had where it

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appeared where it disappeared which what

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he thought was very close by maybe even

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just a quarter mile they saw the light

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flare up and then died down and and he

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didn't but he didn't hear any sound of a

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crash nonetheless the only you know he

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thought it it might be a plane crash and

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that he better take action in case it

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was so he brought a note alerting

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00:15:26,890 --> 00:15:22,250
passerby what was going on and to please

274
00:15:28,770 --> 00:15:26,900
notify police and then he wrote stopped

275
00:15:32,530 --> 00:15:28,780
in large letters on the side of his car

276
00:15:34,450 --> 00:15:32,540
with shoe polish to get people to pull

277
00:15:39,070 --> 00:15:34,460
over and read his note then was attached

278
00:15:40,139 --> 00:15:39,080
to his steering wheel and at that point

279
00:16:03,900 --> 00:15:40,149
he

280
00:16:10,699 --> 00:16:03,910
a hospital and it was 24 hours later and

281
00:16:18,499 --> 00:16:16,079
he's the doctor was in the room and he

282
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:18,509
was waking up and then shortly the

283
00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:20,730
sheriff came in to hear his story

284
00:16:25,439 --> 00:16:23,529
because they were very worried when they

285
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:25,449
when he talked about a possible plane

286
00:16:31,889 --> 00:16:28,480
crash and they were unable to find a

287
00:16:34,170 --> 00:16:31,899
crash so they wanted to get his story

288
00:16:36,780 --> 00:16:34,180
but all he could tell them was basically

289
00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:36,790
that he stopped and he went looking for

290
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:40,990
this thing this this bright object that

291
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:45,519
went behind the ridge well then they

292
00:16:52,829 --> 00:16:48,730
tell him what happened to him and they

293
00:16:57,530 --> 00:16:52,839
found him apparently about a quarter

294
00:17:02,119 --> 00:16:57,540
mile from the road face down in the snow

295
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:02,129
they couldn't find any sign of injury

296
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:04,770
but they just couldn't wake him up and

297
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:11,770
his vital signs were normal and they

298
00:17:17,490 --> 00:17:14,890
said but the one thing that was very

299
00:17:19,579 --> 00:17:17,500
strange was that while he was still

300
00:17:25,649 --> 00:17:19,589
unconscious he was muttering the words

301
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:25,659
jacket on bush and he said well I don't

302
00:17:32,010 --> 00:17:27,730
know I don't know why I said that but

303
00:17:34,919 --> 00:17:32,020
now that you bring that up I was wearing

304
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:34,929
a new sports jacket under my army

305
00:17:42,090 --> 00:17:38,559
overcoat what I when I was setting out

306
00:17:44,430 --> 00:17:42,100
to look for this thing and where is it

307
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:44,440
by the way and they said well we didn't

308
00:17:50,750 --> 00:17:47,010
see a jacket you weren't wearing any

309
00:17:53,310 --> 00:17:50,760
anything like that when we found you and

310
00:17:55,490 --> 00:17:53,320
the search party didn't see a jacket

311
00:17:59,820 --> 00:17:55,500
laying around

312
00:18:04,680 --> 00:17:59,830
so that was that was an interesting kind

313
00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:04,690
of puzzle but it didn't the the full

314
00:18:14,130 --> 00:18:09,220
significance of that didn't really come

315
00:18:18,930 --> 00:18:14,140
to bear until later after a few days in

316
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:18,940
the hospital they sent him back to his

317
00:18:24,210 --> 00:18:21,250
army base they couldn't find anything

318
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:24,220
wrong with him so then there's then the

319
00:18:30,060 --> 00:18:27,490
army checked him over they couldn't find

320
00:18:32,460 --> 00:18:30,070
anything wrong with him either so they

321
00:18:34,590 --> 00:18:32,470
sent him back to duty and this is again

322
00:18:38,610 --> 00:18:34,600
and not this is at Fort Bliss Texas

323
00:18:43,770 --> 00:18:38,620
where he was serving as a Nike missile

324
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:43,780
technician that's that's a very

325
00:18:50,670 --> 00:18:47,650
interesting job

326
00:18:53,550 --> 00:18:50,680
the Nike missile technician I just put

327
00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:53,560
that in there for our listeners because

328
00:18:59,220 --> 00:18:56,710
we have had a number of people on who

329
00:19:03,150 --> 00:18:59,230
have talked about particularly Robert

330
00:19:05,910 --> 00:19:03,160
Hastings the relationship between UFOs

331
00:19:07,620 --> 00:19:05,920
and some of these missiles and the

332
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:07,630
missiles turning off so I just

333
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:09,840
that's my insert go ahead David sorry

334
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:14,530
okay yeah it was that was kind of the

335
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:18,370
state-of-the-art anti-aircraft anti I

336
00:19:25,470 --> 00:19:20,320
mean it was really designed as

337
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:25,480
last-ditch effort I mean it was our the

338
00:19:32,730 --> 00:19:29,200
last link in our chain of protection at

339
00:19:35,370 --> 00:19:32,740
that time against a Russian bombing

340
00:19:40,130 --> 00:19:35,380
attack basically so if they got through

341
00:19:42,420 --> 00:19:40,140
all the way and penetrated US airspace

342
00:19:44,790 --> 00:19:42,430
these missiles were designed to take

343
00:19:50,730 --> 00:19:44,800
down those aircraft before they could

344
00:19:54,270 --> 00:19:50,740
drop their payload at that house before

345
00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:54,280
they had the ICBMs right so it was a

346
00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:56,110
pretty important

347
00:20:04,890 --> 00:19:58,410
they were strategically very important

348
00:20:06,450 --> 00:20:04,900
anyway so then you know Jerry was

349
00:20:07,650 --> 00:20:06,460
released back to duty and he was

350
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:07,660
supposedly

351
00:20:14,750 --> 00:20:09,970
okay as far as they could tell he kept

352
00:20:20,340 --> 00:20:14,760
having problems with blackouts and

353
00:20:23,730 --> 00:20:20,350
amnesia and about three weeks after the

354
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:23,740
original incident in Utah he passed out

355
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:28,090
in downtown El Paso which is adjacent to

356
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:33,250
of a Fort Bliss and they took him to a

357
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:36,970
pass old General Hospital and he was out

358
00:20:43,140 --> 00:20:39,840
for a few hours when he woke up his

359
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:43,150
first words were were there any

360
00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:46,090
survivors and that's exactly what he

361
00:20:53,130 --> 00:20:48,159
said the first time you woke up in Utah

362
00:20:58,039 --> 00:20:53,140
he was he it in his mind he was right

363
00:21:00,180 --> 00:20:58,049
back on that night and it was as if

364
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:00,190
nothing had happened in between he

365
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:07,090
couldn't remember anything and they they

366
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:12,850
tried to kind of jog his memory but he

367
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:15,010
it took him a while they they had to

368
00:21:20,399 --> 00:21:18,250
take him back to the Army Hospital and

369
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:20,409
he didn't recognize anybody at the Army

370
00:21:30,180 --> 00:21:22,570
Hospital even though he'd been in the

371
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:30,190
ward only three weeks earlier so this

372
00:21:38,610 --> 00:21:33,850
time they kept him it was the they kept

373
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,620
him in the psych ward for 32 days this

374
00:21:46,529 --> 00:21:40,799
time because they really wanted to

375
00:21:48,990 --> 00:21:46,539
observe him for a sustained period and

376
00:21:52,409 --> 00:21:49,000
during that time they gave him a sodium

377
00:21:56,940 --> 00:21:52,419
amytal interview which is like they call

378
00:22:01,760 --> 00:21:56,950
it truth serum and it's essentially it's

379
00:22:07,710 --> 00:22:05,549
so under under the influence of sodium

380
00:22:12,779 --> 00:22:07,720
amytal they questioned him to try to

381
00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:12,789
penetrate his amnesia and then when he

382
00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:14,760
when they brought him out of the trance

383
00:22:21,649 --> 00:22:17,080
they wouldn't tell him anything about

384
00:22:30,810 --> 00:22:24,210
they they basically just told him it

385
00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:30,820
didn't work so he never found out now

386
00:22:37,529 --> 00:22:35,919
the day as he remembered it this was the

387
00:22:41,369 --> 00:22:37,539
day before they released him from the

388
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:41,379
hospital the next day when they released

389
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:47,730
him he went into a trance and in that

390
00:22:58,889 --> 00:22:54,159
trance-like state he left the base he

391
00:23:03,119 --> 00:22:58,899
boarded a Greyhound bus essentially he

392
00:23:06,810 --> 00:23:03,129
was going AWOL and he took an overnight

393
00:23:12,239 --> 00:23:06,820
bus to Utah he didn't even really know

394
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:12,249
what he was doing the next day he got

395
00:23:15,869 --> 00:23:13,090
off the bus

396
00:23:20,369 --> 00:23:15,879
at Cedar City which was the city he was

397
00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:20,379
taken to after his original incident and

398
00:23:31,249 --> 00:23:24,190
then he just walked out of town for

399
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:36,509
he walked off the highway straight back

400
00:23:44,129 --> 00:23:40,720
into the bush for some distance where he

401
00:23:49,169 --> 00:23:44,139
found his jacket hanging on a bush his

402
00:23:51,450 --> 00:23:49,179
missing jacket there was a pencil with a

403
00:23:53,220 --> 00:23:51,460
null Raptor wrapped around it that was

404
00:23:56,369 --> 00:23:53,230
stuck through a buttonhole of the jacket

405
00:23:58,289 --> 00:23:56,379
he pulled out the pencil unrolled the

406
00:24:02,549 --> 00:23:58,299
note and then burned it without reading

407
00:24:09,090 --> 00:24:02,559
it and at that point he woke up from his

408
00:24:10,649 --> 00:24:09,100
trance Wow he was very disoriented at

409
00:24:15,109 --> 00:24:10,659
that point when he woke up from his

410
00:24:18,210 --> 00:24:15,119
trance and suddenly he didn't really

411
00:24:18,779 --> 00:24:18,220
know where he was exactly he had a vague

412
00:24:22,739 --> 00:24:18,789
idea

413
00:24:25,710 --> 00:24:22,749
he knew he was AWOL so it took him a

414
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:25,720
while to find the highway again when he

415
00:24:32,009 --> 00:24:28,960
got to the highway he found his way back

416
00:24:35,290 --> 00:24:32,019
to the two Cedar City and turned himself

417
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:37,450
and then he was able to talk to the

418
00:24:44,020 --> 00:24:41,290
sheriff who know he no longer recognized

419
00:24:49,420 --> 00:24:44,030
even though he'd he'd seem that Sheriff

420
00:24:53,290 --> 00:24:49,430
only three weeks earlier the sheriff

421
00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:53,300
then contacted his army base and a few

422
00:25:01,630 --> 00:24:56,240
days later they picked him up and took

423
00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:01,640
him back to Fort Bliss well he had more

424
00:25:09,390 --> 00:25:05,470
problems after that that culminated in

425
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:09,400
another lengthy stay in the psych ward

426
00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:12,770
and when they when he came out of the

427
00:25:21,490 --> 00:25:14,740
psych ward

428
00:25:25,150 --> 00:25:21,500
at the end of July the very next day he

429
00:25:25,540 --> 00:25:25,160
deserted his post and he was never seen

430
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:25,550
again

431
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:28,850
and that's that's the last anybody heard

432
00:25:35,650 --> 00:25:32,210
of him so that's the the basis of the

433
00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:35,660
initial story that was recorded by the

434
00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:41,600
Lorenz ins of a pro yes and I I would

435
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:45,260
say that I believe and I could be wrong

436
00:25:50,830 --> 00:25:48,290
it could be a similar story but that I

437
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:50,840
had heard I'm going to say two or three

438
00:25:57,850 --> 00:25:54,170
years ago on another show Linda Moulton

439
00:26:00,580 --> 00:25:57,860
Howe talked about this story and say

440
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:00,590
that he had disappeared permanently to

441
00:26:05,770 --> 00:26:02,690
her knowledge and into everybody else's

442
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:05,780
knowledge in the UFO world at any rate

443
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:09,710
that would be the case right David right

444
00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:12,050
and nobody ever heard from a monkey Anna

445
00:26:19,870 --> 00:26:17,420
and but what kind of okay that's the

446
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:19,880
point where I got interested I had read

447
00:26:29,050 --> 00:26:23,410
the story even a couple of decades

448
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:29,060
before I started investigating but I

449
00:26:36,430 --> 00:26:32,480
just happened to kind of I always

450
00:26:40,030 --> 00:26:36,440
remembered it but it was just one of so

451
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:40,040
many fascinating stories out there but

452
00:26:44,730 --> 00:26:42,650
the second time or it was I'm sure it

453
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:44,740
was more in the second time then I

454
00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:47,450
stumbled upon it recently which was I

455
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:48,880
guess 2013

456
00:26:54,570 --> 00:26:52,480
mmm-hmm I don't know why it happened

457
00:26:57,930 --> 00:26:54,580
that way but for some reason when I read

458
00:26:59,310 --> 00:26:57,940
that story again this time uh it just

459
00:27:02,670 --> 00:26:59,320
wouldn't let me rest

460
00:27:05,070 --> 00:27:02,680
you're almost compelled like Jerry was

461
00:27:08,340 --> 00:27:05,080
compelled to go after his jacket you

462
00:27:11,580 --> 00:27:08,350
were compelled to go after Jerry yeah

463
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:11,590
and I don't have an explanation for that

464
00:27:20,030 --> 00:27:14,770
I mean all I can say is and isn't it it

465
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:20,040
was a unique experience in my lifetime I

466
00:27:31,890 --> 00:27:25,330
for some reason I just I just knew that

467
00:27:34,860 --> 00:27:31,900
I had to investigate this story and the

468
00:27:38,010 --> 00:27:34,870
interesting thing to me about that and I

469
00:27:43,070 --> 00:27:38,020
had a sense of urgency about it too and

470
00:27:47,310 --> 00:27:43,080
I saw him and I I just wonder because

471
00:27:52,170 --> 00:27:47,320
about four months after okay I'm gonna

472
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:52,180
skip ahead a little bit here to make a

473
00:28:01,020 --> 00:27:54,970
long story short I found this man Jerry

474
00:28:06,890 --> 00:28:01,030
Irwin and we conducted a series of

475
00:28:10,970 --> 00:28:06,900
interviews I went to his home in Idaho

476
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:10,980
twice in 2014

477
00:28:26,940 --> 00:28:22,950
four months later approximately he

478
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:26,950
suffered a massive and very nearly fatal

479
00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:32,050
heart attack and I mean it was so

480
00:28:37,230 --> 00:28:34,720
serious his heart was stopped for over

481
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:37,240
half an hour oh boy we could have a

482
00:28:41,250 --> 00:28:39,370
whole program on whether he had a

483
00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:41,260
near-death experience but we won't go

484
00:28:49,290 --> 00:28:43,510
there right now go ahead go ahead David

485
00:28:51,690 --> 00:28:49,300
sorry yeah and at that point his his

486
00:28:55,740 --> 00:28:51,700
when I was interviewing him and this is

487
00:28:58,860 --> 00:28:55,750
also a large part of the story I I was

488
00:29:02,310 --> 00:28:58,870
able to understand pretty quickly that

489
00:29:06,580 --> 00:29:02,320
he had some major gaps in his memory

490
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:06,590
about the events of that year mm-hmm

491
00:29:15,519 --> 00:29:10,960
and after his heart attack his memory

492
00:29:17,769 --> 00:29:15,529
took another major hit and and he he

493
00:29:20,830 --> 00:29:17,779
lost a lot of what was left at that

494
00:29:24,729 --> 00:29:20,840
point of its memory so I guess what I'm

495
00:29:27,729 --> 00:29:24,739
saying is I don't think this really

496
00:29:31,810 --> 00:29:27,739
could have happened this this project if

497
00:29:36,430 --> 00:29:31,820
I had waited work for anybody if nobody

498
00:29:39,969 --> 00:29:36,440
had gotten involved in that timeframe

499
00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:39,979
before that massive heart attack I just

500
00:29:45,310 --> 00:29:42,320
doubt this ever would have happened well

501
00:29:48,339 --> 00:29:45,320
I can't help but think from an intuitive

502
00:29:50,950 --> 00:29:48,349
point of view that somehow you were

503
00:29:53,469 --> 00:29:50,960
called upon because here you are you're

504
00:29:56,469 --> 00:29:53,479
a guy interested in the paranormal in

505
00:30:00,509 --> 00:29:56,479
general never had an up-close UFO

506
00:30:05,379 --> 00:30:00,519
sighting not a not a mainstream

507
00:30:08,409 --> 00:30:05,389
ufologist good writer great guy but it's

508
00:30:11,259 --> 00:30:08,419
just suddenly takes off on this

509
00:30:14,229 --> 00:30:11,269
adventure to go see Jerry Erwin and you

510
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:14,239
managed to meet up with him and get as

511
00:30:20,229 --> 00:30:17,570
much of his story as he remembered but

512
00:30:24,099 --> 00:30:20,239
what is quite baffling is all the things

513
00:30:26,979 --> 00:30:24,109
he didn't remember and I will you know

514
00:30:29,049 --> 00:30:26,989
fill something in here and that is that

515
00:30:32,889 --> 00:30:29,059
for those people who might be listening

516
00:30:36,219 --> 00:30:32,899
who think you know they're on the fence

517
00:30:39,070 --> 00:30:36,229
about what UFOs are or if they're they

518
00:30:43,450 --> 00:30:39,080
even exist to the people who wonder if

519
00:30:46,269 --> 00:30:43,460
UFOs even exist I would say that David

520
00:30:49,690 --> 00:30:46,279
our author here has gone to great

521
00:30:53,109 --> 00:30:49,700
lengths within the book to look at the

522
00:30:57,060 --> 00:30:53,119
idea of was this a hoax did Jerry hoax

523
00:31:00,909 --> 00:30:57,070
it did did the government orchestrate a

524
00:31:05,019 --> 00:31:00,919
PSYOP attack and I'm forced to conclude

525
00:31:07,629 --> 00:31:05,029
from your research and my own thoughts

526
00:31:11,109 --> 00:31:07,639
that indeed it was not that he did see

527
00:31:13,839 --> 00:31:11,119
something and that it was genuine to a

528
00:31:15,310 --> 00:31:13,849
point of when he got in the hands of the

529
00:31:17,310 --> 00:31:15,320
army and then

530
00:31:19,690 --> 00:31:17,320
you know it's it's anybody's guess

531
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:19,700
exactly what they did to his mind I

532
00:31:30,820 --> 00:31:21,970
would not be able to comment

533
00:31:32,590 --> 00:31:30,830
intellectually on that part I I know but

534
00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:32,600
one thing is probably really important

535
00:31:42,790 --> 00:31:39,310
to to observe is that and when Jerry was

536
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:42,800
asked about his experiences in 1959 by

537
00:31:50,290 --> 00:31:47,440
the lorenz ins right he felt clear that

538
00:31:54,940 --> 00:31:50,300
whatever his problems were they were

539
00:31:58,930 --> 00:31:54,950
coming from his experience in Utah this

540
00:32:00,760 --> 00:31:58,940
is what he also told in this look we we

541
00:32:04,180 --> 00:32:00,770
actually received a lot of new

542
00:32:07,330 --> 00:32:04,190
information that was made possible by

543
00:32:10,180 --> 00:32:07,340
Jerry authorizing the release of his

544
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:10,190
medical records and service records from

545
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:16,010
the Army which he had never seen which

546
00:32:24,010 --> 00:32:20,210
in which he also told his doctors the

547
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:24,020
same thing he at least in his mind there

548
00:32:31,230 --> 00:32:27,890
was no question that the continuum

549
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:31,240
continued problems he had with his

550
00:32:39,580 --> 00:32:34,730
blackouts and in zamnesia stemmed from

551
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:39,590
his experience in Utah now that's also

552
00:32:46,330 --> 00:32:42,530
backed up by the records because his

553
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:46,340
doctors looked into his background they

554
00:32:53,020 --> 00:32:48,890
could find no history of anything

555
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:53,030
similar for him and he had been in the

556
00:32:56,460 --> 00:32:55,130
service previously in the Air Force for

557
00:32:59,710 --> 00:32:56,470
four years

558
00:33:03,880 --> 00:32:59,720
they and he had been in the Army for I

559
00:33:06,580 --> 00:33:03,890
think this for a little over when this

560
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:06,590
happened yeah known he'd had no

561
00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:09,290
disciplinary problems he had no medical

562
00:33:15,130 --> 00:33:09,950
problems

563
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:15,140
suddenly he has is he experienced in

564
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:19,510
Utah and his life is is upended it's

565
00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:22,250
everything's upside-down suddenly he's

566
00:33:29,049 --> 00:33:24,910
going in a into a downward spiral he's

567
00:33:31,089 --> 00:33:29,059
having a as a result he's having

568
00:33:32,889 --> 00:33:31,099
what are interpreted as disciplinary

569
00:33:36,639 --> 00:33:32,899
problems but they're really he's just

570
00:33:39,849 --> 00:33:36,649
suffering basically problems of mental

571
00:33:44,259 --> 00:33:39,859
problems really I mean in a he in the

572
00:33:47,229 --> 00:33:44,269
view of the army of anybody who at that

573
00:33:51,459 --> 00:33:47,239
time we can say that UFOs were not

574
00:33:55,949 --> 00:33:51,469
unknown but abductions in 1959 were

575
00:33:59,709 --> 00:33:55,959
extraordinarily rare and there was no

576
00:34:04,119 --> 00:33:59,719
like template of what an abduction

577
00:34:06,639 --> 00:34:04,129
experience should be like now I want to

578
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:06,649
mention here two things that came it

579
00:34:10,690 --> 00:34:08,480
came to me in the book that I thought

580
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:10,700
were great but I want to do one thing

581
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:11,690
for you first

582
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:14,450
I want to slate that we're speaking to

583
00:34:19,839 --> 00:34:16,399
David Booher who has written a book

584
00:34:23,559 --> 00:34:19,849
called no return the Jerry Erwin story

585
00:34:25,659 --> 00:34:23,569
UFO abduction or covert operation and

586
00:34:30,730 --> 00:34:25,669
it's published by our friends at

587
00:34:34,379 --> 00:34:30,740
anomalous books okay so two things that

588
00:34:38,169 --> 00:34:34,389
seem to me to be marvelous that you

589
00:34:43,509 --> 00:34:38,179
managed to get first the army records

590
00:34:46,029 --> 00:34:43,519
with the doctor's note about what dr.

591
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:46,039
Valentine I believe it was he wrote down

592
00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:50,000
about what came out something about what

593
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:53,599
came out under the sodium sodium sodium

594
00:35:00,789 --> 00:34:56,240
amytal I always think of pentathol but

595
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:00,799
it's amytal in this case treatment and

596
00:35:09,819 --> 00:35:04,960
then the fact also that you were able to

597
00:35:11,859 --> 00:35:09,829
access the appro stuff now i know i've

598
00:35:15,609 --> 00:35:11,869
heard a lot about and i know of a lot of

599
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:15,619
people who have petitioned the folks who

600
00:35:21,579 --> 00:35:18,640
are now in possession of the appro

601
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:21,589
information since coral and jim lorenzo

602
00:35:28,299 --> 00:35:25,130
sadly passed away and have been totally

603
00:35:30,730 --> 00:35:28,309
unable to obtain any information from

604
00:35:31,150 --> 00:35:30,740
the people who who i have no idea who

605
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:31,160
they are

606
00:35:36,370 --> 00:35:32,720
i'm just saying this because i've heard

607
00:35:38,109 --> 00:35:36,380
this they have not been able to get the

608
00:35:39,809 --> 00:35:38,119
information out of appra how did you

609
00:35:42,070 --> 00:35:39,819
manage that

610
00:35:50,610 --> 00:35:42,080
well all I could say is

611
00:35:55,150 --> 00:35:50,620
I just I just decided to have to ask and

612
00:36:02,200 --> 00:35:55,160
they complied and I in awe it which was

613
00:36:05,170 --> 00:36:02,210
a huge benefit to my research it it

614
00:36:11,830 --> 00:36:05,180
really filled in some important pieces

615
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:11,840
of information in terms of things that

616
00:36:18,310 --> 00:36:16,880
the Lorenz ins had had found but for

617
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:18,320
whatever reason it didn't make it into

618
00:36:23,260 --> 00:36:20,930
their final story and I think part of

619
00:36:24,730 --> 00:36:23,270
that is simply because they didn't they

620
00:36:27,130 --> 00:36:24,740
didn't have enough information to know

621
00:36:32,580 --> 00:36:27,140
what was going to be significant

622
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:32,590
ultimately about certain details so Mike

623
00:36:40,270 --> 00:36:35,330
that's all I can tell you I mean in this

624
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:40,280
case I they decided to help me out and

625
00:36:45,610 --> 00:36:42,890
provided those files which well you've

626
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:45,620
got the gold in touch with this David

627
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:48,800
and I intuitively I just feel like it

628
00:36:57,750 --> 00:36:52,640
there is some kind of faded situation

629
00:37:02,650 --> 00:36:57,760
here whether some unknown force has

630
00:37:06,730 --> 00:37:02,660
guided you through this certainly the

631
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:06,740
the the name of Jacques valet has no

632
00:37:10,690 --> 00:37:08,720
doubt helped you win your research and

633
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:10,700
but you've done a marvelous job all on

634
00:37:16,990 --> 00:37:14,930
your own there and they can you perhaps

635
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:17,000
talk a little bit about the sodium

636
00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:21,650
pentathol the sodium amytal part there

637
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:24,110
what actually was found out that Jerry

638
00:37:32,260 --> 00:37:25,970
had said or at least what did dr.

639
00:37:36,490 --> 00:37:32,270
Valentine right there yeah now to

640
00:37:40,750 --> 00:37:36,500
preface this briefly as you mentioned

641
00:37:43,870 --> 00:37:40,760
earlier there had simply been no stories

642
00:37:47,710 --> 00:37:43,880
of abduction in the media at this point

643
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:47,720
when this happened of course there was

644
00:37:55,690 --> 00:37:51,290
kind of a UFO mania in the 50s and there

645
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:55,700
was this kind of contactee mania which

646
00:37:59,950 --> 00:37:55,970
was

647
00:38:02,710 --> 00:37:59,960
very different kind of phenomenon but

648
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:02,720
this is what one thing that makes this

649
00:38:10,810 --> 00:38:06,770
story so fascinating is it it bears the

650
00:38:15,580 --> 00:38:10,820
hallmarks of a classic UFO abduction

651
00:38:20,620 --> 00:38:15,590
case but there at that point in time he

652
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:20,630
had if he was inclined to make it up or

653
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:24,170
if he was someone who was susceptible to

654
00:38:29,950 --> 00:38:27,050
the power of suggestion let's say there

655
00:38:34,450 --> 00:38:29,960
simply weren't any stories to influence

656
00:38:36,220 --> 00:38:34,460
him in that regard so this is still two

657
00:38:40,510 --> 00:38:36,230
years before the Betty and Barney Hill

658
00:38:43,870 --> 00:38:40,520
case and their story didn't even reach

659
00:38:48,220 --> 00:38:43,880
the mainstream media until the mid 60s

660
00:38:52,349 --> 00:38:48,230
so this was considerably earlier on okay

661
00:38:56,099 --> 00:38:52,359
and now that's important in regard to

662
00:38:58,330 --> 00:38:56,109
Jerry's doctor because Jerry's doctor

663
00:39:01,240 --> 00:38:58,340
certainly couldn't have heard any of

664
00:39:04,060 --> 00:39:01,250
these details before from other cases

665
00:39:08,530 --> 00:39:04,070
and there's no doubt from reading his

666
00:39:09,420 --> 00:39:08,540
notes that to him this is just total

667
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:09,430
nonsense

668
00:39:19,540 --> 00:39:13,520
what Jerry what here's Jerry saying and

669
00:39:25,690 --> 00:39:19,550
he's inclined to think that it says this

670
00:39:28,089 --> 00:39:25,700
is a symptom of psychosis and yet I'll

671
00:39:37,290 --> 00:39:28,099
just I'll reap briefly that what he

672
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:42,250
jerry stated he's speaking about jerry

673
00:39:47,859 --> 00:39:44,510
okay stated that there was a special

674
00:39:50,589 --> 00:39:47,869
intelligence that he couldn't explain to

675
00:39:53,170 --> 00:39:50,599
me since it would be incomprehensible to

676
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:53,180
me which has directed him not to

677
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:56,480
remember or not to tell me about any of

678
00:40:01,839 --> 00:39:59,599
the events in utah he says that if he

679
00:40:04,420 --> 00:40:01,849
tells what was behind the incidents nude

680
00:40:07,150 --> 00:40:04,430
in utah there will be a big

681
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:07,160
investigation that he does not want to

682
00:40:11,060 --> 00:40:08,610
be bothered with

683
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:11,070
and also because it will harm many

684
00:40:16,970 --> 00:40:12,330
people and he doesn't want that to

685
00:40:20,810 --> 00:40:16,980
happen he states it all began at the age

686
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:20,820
of three years although he will not

687
00:40:27,110 --> 00:40:24,810
reveal how or what began stating it

688
00:40:32,090 --> 00:40:27,120
would provide a clue to me as to what is

689
00:40:33,850 --> 00:40:32,100
behind all this he also he informed me

690
00:40:37,490 --> 00:40:33,860
that he could leave this hospital

691
00:40:45,230 --> 00:40:37,500
anytime if he wanted to by invoking a

692
00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:45,240
special force Wow I that that is I read

693
00:40:51,020 --> 00:40:47,520
that in your book and that's quite

694
00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:51,030
mind-blowing and that kind of seals the

695
00:40:57,980 --> 00:40:54,240
whole thing in my mind to some extent

696
00:41:02,660 --> 00:40:57,990
that this doctor prior to the abduction

697
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:02,670
phenomena put this gentleman under

698
00:41:09,650 --> 00:41:06,690
sodium amytal and came and and Jerry

699
00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:09,660
came out with basically that and and

700
00:41:19,550 --> 00:41:13,310
really we have no reason to believe that

701
00:41:21,260 --> 00:41:19,560
the doctor was lying in his notes you

702
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:21,270
did bring up the idea that he may have

703
00:41:27,110 --> 00:41:23,280
been given the sodium amytal more than

704
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:27,120
once and this could in fact have made

705
00:41:31,820 --> 00:41:29,040
his memory even worse than it was to

706
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:31,830
start off with but clearly he was having

707
00:41:39,370 --> 00:41:34,290
a lot of amnesia before he ever got the

708
00:41:45,980 --> 00:41:42,410
and one one more point about that

709
00:41:49,730 --> 00:41:45,990
interview is there's a great deal of

710
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:49,740
concern that's been voiced over the last

711
00:42:03,980 --> 00:42:00,670
unscrupulous or inexperienced hypnotists

712
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:03,990
consciously or unconsciously leading

713
00:42:10,490 --> 00:42:07,650
their subjects to remember things that

714
00:42:11,660 --> 00:42:10,500
that didn't actually happen right I mean

715
00:42:15,140 --> 00:42:11,670
there's a word for it but I can't think

716
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:15,150
of that right now but absolutely this

717
00:42:22,310 --> 00:42:18,960
could not have happened in this case at

718
00:42:25,700 --> 00:42:22,320
which which is one more

719
00:42:31,790 --> 00:42:25,710
one more aspect that makes it seem it

720
00:42:34,220 --> 00:42:31,800
adds to the authenticity I think I'm I'm

721
00:42:38,180 --> 00:42:34,230
compelled by the mention of him being

722
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:38,190
three years old you know because being

723
00:42:44,030 --> 00:42:41,520
an experienced or myself I remember

724
00:42:46,010 --> 00:42:44,040
feeling like something was pulling me

725
00:42:49,180 --> 00:42:46,020
out of my body when I was in that age

726
00:42:52,700 --> 00:42:49,190
range so I have a lot of sympathy for

727
00:42:55,220 --> 00:42:52,710
for a Jerry there and may I ask you

728
00:42:59,600 --> 00:42:55,230
his condition currently as we speak in

729
00:43:03,710 --> 00:42:59,610
2017 he's still with us I believe far as

730
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:03,720
I know he is I I mean to try to get in

731
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:06,210
touch with him sometime soon I did talk

732
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:11,040
to him in June and he's had a slow long

733
00:43:15,830 --> 00:43:13,200
slow recovery because that heart attack

734
00:43:21,230 --> 00:43:15,840
was I guess that was a little over two

735
00:43:26,180 --> 00:43:21,240
and a half years ago and his apparently

736
00:43:29,210 --> 00:43:26,190
his memory and his functioning have been

737
00:43:32,450 --> 00:43:29,220
slowly improving over that time to the

738
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:32,460
point where this time he remembered me

739
00:43:42,260 --> 00:43:39,570
and he hadn't before that so he so I'm

740
00:43:45,290 --> 00:43:42,270
I'm hopeful that he'll continue to

741
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:45,300
improve and I and he was very optimistic

742
00:43:49,940 --> 00:43:47,610
as well I hope you'll have a reunion

743
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:49,950
with him that would be nice

744
00:43:56,060 --> 00:43:53,730
I wonder if this Fame has reached him of

745
00:43:58,820 --> 00:43:56,070
you know the fame that your book perhaps

746
00:44:01,010 --> 00:43:58,830
has given him and the fact that people

747
00:44:04,510 --> 00:44:01,020
in ufology thought he was dead but you

748
00:44:08,450 --> 00:44:04,520
really brought out so many fascinating

749
00:44:11,140 --> 00:44:08,460
you compared his case with the hills the

750
00:44:15,020 --> 00:44:11,150
Betty and Barney Hills case and you also

751
00:44:18,140 --> 00:44:15,030
revealed that even Carl Jung had an

752
00:44:22,010 --> 00:44:18,150
opinion on the matter and that choral

753
00:44:25,850 --> 00:44:22,020
Lorenzen stood firm with her opinion now

754
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:25,860
I you know I have no doubt that Jerry in

755
00:44:32,810 --> 00:44:29,130
my mind anyway that Jerry was the victim

756
00:44:35,180 --> 00:44:32,820
of some very strange event I don't

757
00:44:36,170 --> 00:44:35,190
believe that the event itself from what

758
00:44:37,790 --> 00:44:36,180
I've read from you

759
00:44:39,650 --> 00:44:37,800
I'm just giving you my opinion you know

760
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:39,660
kind of going in here with you

761
00:44:43,579 --> 00:44:41,970
I don't believe from what you wrote and

762
00:44:46,359 --> 00:44:43,589
from everything that you said and you

763
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:46,369
seem like a very incredibly honest

764
00:44:51,559 --> 00:44:49,050
research at giving all sides of the

765
00:44:54,319 --> 00:44:51,569
story I don't believe that the actual

766
00:44:56,839 --> 00:44:54,329
event was orchestrated by the government

767
00:45:00,380 --> 00:44:56,849
that it seems like a whole lot of money

768
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:00,390
to be spent for one little soldier who

769
00:45:06,290 --> 00:45:02,880
you know would end up with mental

770
00:45:09,230 --> 00:45:06,300
problems although it was the time as you

771
00:45:12,589 --> 00:45:09,240
mentioned of psyops

772
00:45:14,930 --> 00:45:12,599
and and the all of a sudden my mind went

773
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:14,940
blank on the big program of psyops that

774
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:17,369
were that took place at that time you

775
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:19,410
know that you know it David what was

776
00:45:26,299 --> 00:45:22,050
okay MK yeah thank you thank you thank

777
00:45:29,359 --> 00:45:26,309
you but there's one thing that I don't

778
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:29,369
believe you covered in the book okay and

779
00:45:35,540 --> 00:45:33,210
I'm I don't know that this was anything

780
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:35,550
about the case and in fact what I'm

781
00:45:44,780 --> 00:45:39,890
going to say is also still a very big

782
00:45:48,829 --> 00:45:44,790
mystery even to astronomers now if I

783
00:45:54,589 --> 00:45:48,839
remember correctly his initial sighting

784
00:45:58,520 --> 00:45:54,599
was in February yes okay yeah his

785
00:46:02,599 --> 00:45:58,530
initial sighting was in February and for

786
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:02,609
the last twenty years or so he we here

787
00:46:08,510 --> 00:46:06,290
on earth now this is after Jerry Irwin's

788
00:46:11,059 --> 00:46:08,520
event because we're talking about the

789
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:11,069
last twenty thirty years we have

790
00:46:15,980 --> 00:46:13,650
experienced here on earth something

791
00:46:20,030 --> 00:46:15,990
called the February fireballs are you

792
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:20,040
aware of that no I guess that's new to

793
00:46:28,450 --> 00:46:23,970
me okay so let me let me say a few words

794
00:46:32,690 --> 00:46:28,460
about that and it's an it's an

795
00:46:36,799 --> 00:46:32,700
astronomical anomaly it's not thought to

796
00:46:39,500 --> 00:46:36,809
be extraterrestrial intelligences but no

797
00:46:41,809 --> 00:46:39,510
one really knows but for I'll say about

798
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:41,819
the last 25 years and I'm not an

799
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:43,890
astronomer so I could be wrong on my

800
00:46:50,030 --> 00:46:47,280
facts there have been what appears to be

801
00:46:54,700 --> 00:46:50,040
very large meteors

802
00:46:59,410 --> 00:46:54,710
coming into the atmosphere in the

803
00:47:02,390 --> 00:46:59,420
northern hemisphere and crossing the sky

804
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:02,400
sort of obliquely in other words when

805
00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:03,810
you see a shooting star

806
00:47:07,940 --> 00:47:06,240
mostly they come right down and they're

807
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:07,950
gone in a second

808
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:12,930
these February fireballs seem to be

809
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:17,490
molten metal and they cross the sky at a

810
00:47:26,060 --> 00:47:22,800
slower rate that astronomers are have

811
00:47:33,350 --> 00:47:26,070
theories about why they are traveling so

812
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:33,360
slowly I was very lucky to see two of

813
00:47:36,860 --> 00:47:35,370
these things and some astronomers have

814
00:47:39,980 --> 00:47:36,870
never seen them so the fact that I saw

815
00:47:42,650 --> 00:47:39,990
two of them is like I allow both in the

816
00:47:46,310 --> 00:47:42,660
same year the first one I saw in the

817
00:47:49,250 --> 00:47:46,320
beginning of March and it's it's

818
00:47:54,740 --> 00:47:49,260
streaked across the sky as I was walking

819
00:47:59,420 --> 00:47:54,750
out at night around a small lake in New

820
00:48:03,350 --> 00:47:59,430
Jersey and it crossed the sky slowly and

821
00:48:06,290 --> 00:48:03,360
I saw it about when it was overhead and

822
00:48:11,290 --> 00:48:06,300
then I saw it go down and it appeared to

823
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:11,300
go down behind this hill and I was

824
00:48:18,070 --> 00:48:14,850
tempted to go chase it because I thought

825
00:48:20,510 --> 00:48:18,080
oh wow I'm gonna find this big meteor

826
00:48:27,410 --> 00:48:20,520
virtually blocks away from where I am

827
00:48:29,860 --> 00:48:27,420
and the color it kind of what it looked

828
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:29,870
like it sort of had a greenish color

829
00:48:34,940 --> 00:48:32,640
which may have indicated that there was

830
00:48:37,340 --> 00:48:34,950
copper in it but you know I'm not a

831
00:48:40,070 --> 00:48:37,350
chemist greenish and then some little

832
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:40,080
bit of blueish there may have been like

833
00:48:46,910 --> 00:48:42,090
a little bit of a crackling sound but

834
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:46,920
the sound was not extraordinary or even

835
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:49,770
noticeable probably to some people I was

836
00:48:56,090 --> 00:48:52,800
with another person and I was literally

837
00:48:58,700 --> 00:48:56,100
speechless I was pointing to the object

838
00:49:01,100 --> 00:48:58,710
as it went down and the person that was

839
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:01,110
with me was looking at me like I'd lost

840
00:49:06,250 --> 00:49:03,290
my only brain

841
00:49:10,170 --> 00:49:06,260
and she refused to look in the direction

842
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:10,180
I was pointing with my mouth open going

843
00:49:21,850 --> 00:49:18,110
and and so I went home and I researched

844
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:21,860
it a little bit I called up a local

845
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:24,890
MUFON person who I know who's been on

846
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:28,400
the show and he said he thought it was a

847
00:49:37,450 --> 00:49:32,210
meteor and he directed me to the meteor

848
00:49:40,570 --> 00:49:37,460
sighting there's a whole compendium list

849
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:40,580
online of all the meteors that are of

850
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:42,530
any size that might come down to earth

851
00:49:53,470 --> 00:49:49,370
or go past now this one was seen oddly

852
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:53,480
enough all the way from Scandinavia all

853
00:49:58,690 --> 00:49:55,610
the way to I'm going to say West

854
00:50:03,150 --> 00:49:58,700
Virginia somewhere in that region so it

855
00:50:07,870 --> 00:50:03,160
crossed the northern Atlantic from

856
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:07,880
Sweden let's say that Norway all the way

857
00:50:16,870 --> 00:50:14,810
across somewhere in Canada maybe Prince

858
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:16,880
Edward Island like that people saw it

859
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:19,010
and people saw it all the way down

860
00:50:24,850 --> 00:50:21,050
Virginia and West Virginia

861
00:50:27,700 --> 00:50:24,860
it made an arc but it looked very much

862
00:50:30,700 --> 00:50:27,710
like it was going to crash in my

863
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:30,710
vicinity and were younger and a blur and

864
00:50:37,540 --> 00:50:33,410
I'm not you know I'm not but I wasn't

865
00:50:39,730 --> 00:50:37,550
about to take off over the hill looking

866
00:50:41,380 --> 00:50:39,740
for it but I would have liked to but I

867
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:41,390
would have been I wouldn't have found

868
00:50:48,070 --> 00:50:45,170
anything that being said because I saw

869
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:48,080
the first one I was riding in a car and

870
00:50:54,670 --> 00:50:49,970
I saw a second one which I then

871
00:50:58,180 --> 00:50:54,680
confirmed with that meteor sight but the

872
00:51:02,260 --> 00:50:58,190
second one was not at all anywhere near

873
00:51:05,170 --> 00:51:02,270
as dramatic as the first one the object

874
00:51:08,770 --> 00:51:05,180
was more than half the size of the moon

875
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:08,780
I would say and just one of the most

876
00:51:14,010 --> 00:51:10,640
amazing things I've ever seen in my life

877
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:14,020
now I did a blog spot about that and

878
00:51:19,660 --> 00:51:16,850
what I did get a respond

879
00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:19,670
to that blogspot from an astral

880
00:51:25,630 --> 00:51:22,640
photographer in Europe and said that I

881
00:51:28,690 --> 00:51:25,640
was very blessed to have heard from it I

882
00:51:31,060 --> 00:51:28,700
have seen it rather I don't know if that

883
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:31,070
was his exact words but he felt that

884
00:51:39,580 --> 00:51:33,650
there were some extraterrestrial

885
00:51:41,890 --> 00:51:39,590
intelligences operating there and far be

886
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:41,900
it for me to disagree because I have

887
00:51:47,380 --> 00:51:44,690
been an experiencer but it was it was a

888
00:51:50,140 --> 00:51:47,390
monumental experience in my life as all

889
00:51:51,340 --> 00:51:50,150
I can tell you is it was like I wouldn't

890
00:51:53,530 --> 00:51:51,350
trade it for the world

891
00:51:55,330 --> 00:51:53,540
it looked almost like a comet but a

892
00:52:00,820 --> 00:51:55,340
moving comet you know where a comet is

893
00:52:04,060 --> 00:52:00,830
bigger than a a meteorite but I I would

894
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:04,070
just suggest that you look at that but

895
00:52:11,110 --> 00:52:07,490
that does not preclude in any way the

896
00:52:15,070 --> 00:52:11,120
idea of alien intelligence or the fact

897
00:52:16,420 --> 00:52:15,080
that it could be even some kind if it

898
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:16,430
were that it could be some form of

899
00:52:22,450 --> 00:52:19,490
oblique message from an alien

900
00:52:26,890 --> 00:52:22,460
intelligence but I do suggest you take a

901
00:52:30,340 --> 00:52:26,900
look at the the February fireballs yeah

902
00:52:33,550 --> 00:52:30,350
that's very it's very intriguing and I

903
00:52:35,260 --> 00:52:33,560
could see why if if somebody saw

904
00:52:37,570 --> 00:52:35,270
something like that just like the way

905
00:52:40,510 --> 00:52:37,580
you were affected why that could be

906
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:40,520
compelling enough to cause someone to go

907
00:52:52,090 --> 00:52:47,810
and investigate absolutely and if that

908
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:52,100
happened but one thing is seems to be a

909
00:52:57,990 --> 00:52:54,490
key to the whole story of Jeremy Irwin

910
00:53:01,620 --> 00:52:58,000
seems to revolve around that jacket and

911
00:53:08,170 --> 00:53:01,630
a one hot detail about the jacket is

912
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:08,180
that he supposedly he lost his jacket

913
00:53:13,150 --> 00:53:11,810
somewhere near I'll be 20 because that's

914
00:53:19,170 --> 00:53:13,160
where he had his original incident

915
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:19,180
that's about oh about 30 miles 35 miles

916
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:29,050
then I found a really interesting puzzle

917
00:53:32,740 --> 00:53:30,290
when I started

918
00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:32,750
looking at the original stories that

919
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:35,200
were published in newspapers and

920
00:53:43,020 --> 00:53:37,520
comparing them to what the Lorenz ins

921
00:53:47,230 --> 00:53:43,030
published according to the Lorenz ins

922
00:53:51,370 --> 00:53:47,240
when Jerry returned to Utah in the State

923
00:53:57,790 --> 00:53:51,380
of Trance in March so I guess that was

924
00:54:00,820 --> 00:53:57,800
April in April he walked out of Cedar

925
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:00,830
City along Highway 14 and the place

926
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:05,210
where he actually found his jacket was a

927
00:54:13,540 --> 00:54:11,210
good 50 miles by Road or I think it was

928
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:13,550
approximately 30 miles as the crow flies

929
00:54:22,900 --> 00:54:16,370
from the site of his original incident

930
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:22,910
Wow and that's a very interesting puzzle

931
00:54:30,910 --> 00:54:28,250
that so it's certainly possible that

932
00:54:35,140 --> 00:54:30,920
there's a lot of explanations for what

933
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:35,150
he might have seen but what it where it

934
00:54:43,380 --> 00:54:40,250
gets more interesting is why did he why

935
00:54:46,690 --> 00:54:43,390
was he unconscious for 24 hours and also

936
00:54:47,110 --> 00:54:46,700
what's the story with that jacket yeah

937
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:47,120
really

938
00:54:53,010 --> 00:54:50,450
and him burning the note that he'd

939
00:54:58,300 --> 00:54:53,020
written on the jacket without reading it

940
00:55:01,450 --> 00:54:58,310
yeah that's pretty bizarre he he

941
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:01,460
actually when I talked to him and also

942
00:55:07,150 --> 00:55:03,890
when he talked to the Lorenz ins he

943
00:55:10,330 --> 00:55:07,160
remembered passing out not long after he

944
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:10,340
left his vehicle but interestingly the

945
00:55:17,650 --> 00:55:14,210
sheriff's own report which was which was

946
00:55:20,380 --> 00:55:17,660
something I was able to get a copy of a

947
00:55:25,690 --> 00:55:20,390
letter that he wrote about Jerry's

948
00:55:28,630 --> 00:55:25,700
encounter or his incident fairly late in

949
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:28,640
my research but in that letter the

950
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:32,090
sheriff said that they found him at the

951
00:55:41,590 --> 00:55:35,570
top of the ridge not right close to his

952
00:55:43,420 --> 00:55:41,600
car and that Jerry at that time because

953
00:55:44,020 --> 00:55:43,430
the sheriff was the first one to hear

954
00:55:47,380 --> 00:55:44,030
any

955
00:55:50,730 --> 00:55:47,390
testimony from Gerry apparently Gerry

956
00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:50,740
told him that he remembered walking up

957
00:55:56,740 --> 00:55:52,880
towards the place where he thought it

958
00:55:59,230 --> 00:55:56,750
crashed and with every step he saw that

959
00:56:04,180 --> 00:55:59,240
light getting brighter as if he was

960
00:56:10,620 --> 00:56:04,190
approaching a glowing object so in the

961
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:10,630
in this first telling of the story Gerry

962
00:56:16,570 --> 00:56:13,130
was telling a story that seemed to

963
00:56:18,190 --> 00:56:16,580
indicate that it was something that was

964
00:56:20,020 --> 00:56:18,200
there and he was getting closer to it

965
00:56:22,900 --> 00:56:20,030
and right what he should have seen it

966
00:56:29,290 --> 00:56:22,910
clearing the ridgetop is when he blacked

967
00:56:32,380 --> 00:56:29,300
out interesting yeah well I wonder if we

968
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:32,390
will ever find out I know that Gerry

969
00:56:37,410 --> 00:56:35,330
doesn't seem that interested in finding

970
00:56:42,310 --> 00:56:37,420
out what happened so he probably

971
00:56:43,660 --> 00:56:42,320
wouldn't even take a hypnotic regression

972
00:56:46,540 --> 00:56:43,670
at this point and I don't know if he

973
00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:46,550
should but it will remain a great

974
00:56:53,340 --> 00:56:49,520
mystery and perhaps you would like to

975
00:56:58,480 --> 00:56:53,350
tell the name of your book again and and

976
00:57:01,060 --> 00:56:58,490
the and you know where people can get it

977
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:01,070
and how they can okay

978
00:57:09,190 --> 00:57:04,970
yeah it's called dull return the Gerry

979
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:09,200
Irwin's story the subtitle is UFO

980
00:57:15,820 --> 00:57:12,770
abduction or a covert operation it's

981
00:57:18,670 --> 00:57:15,830
available on all the major book outlets

982
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:18,680
like Animas on Barnes & Noble the and

983
00:57:28,660 --> 00:57:23,210
the anymore asari in eBook form as Kobo

984
00:57:34,510 --> 00:57:28,670
and those other formats and I have a

985
00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:34,520
Facebook page set up for it at it's

986
00:57:41,230 --> 00:57:38,240
called no return at forgotten and

987
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:41,240
calendar I just liked the Facebook page

988
00:57:47,050 --> 00:57:43,930
today and we hope you will like our

989
00:57:50,110 --> 00:57:47,060
Facebook page of shattered reality

990
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:50,120
podcast and we've certainly really

991
00:57:55,540 --> 00:57:53,810
enjoyed having you on and I just threw

992
00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:55,550
that thing out there about the February

993
00:57:59,349 --> 00:57:57,440
fireball because I had the

994
00:58:01,210 --> 00:57:59,359
experience with it and in fact

995
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:01,220
scientists don't know quite what they

996
00:58:06,220 --> 00:58:04,010
are anyway so it could fit into the

997
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:06,230
mystery or perhaps it doesn't fit in at

998
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:09,010
all but we'll just put it out there and

999
00:58:15,010 --> 00:58:12,530
again we thank you so much David for

1000
00:58:18,309 --> 00:58:15,020
being a guest on shadow of reality

1001
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:18,319
podcast oh thanks so much for having me

1002
00:58:23,470 --> 00:58:19,490
on I really enjoyed it

1003
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:23,480
oh we did well I did too and and we are

1004
00:58:28,150 --> 00:58:25,970
not here today except I think that our

1005
00:58:31,300 --> 00:58:28,160
engineer bill has enjoyed it as well and

1006
00:58:33,339 --> 00:58:31,310
and Kate will be back and I'm sure

1007
00:58:38,020 --> 00:58:33,349
she'll listen to it as soon as we get

1008
00:58:39,730 --> 00:58:38,030
the the audio up and running okay David

1009
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:39,740
I hope to speak to you again oh one

1010
00:58:46,740 --> 00:58:42,410
question before you go do you have any

1011
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:46,750
future plans for investigating any other

1012
00:58:54,220 --> 00:58:52,130
interesting anomalous stuff I not at the

1013
00:58:56,620 --> 00:58:54,230
moment but you never know what might be

1014
00:58:59,740 --> 00:58:56,630
around the corner well I certainly hope

1015
00:59:02,680 --> 00:58:59,750
you do because I personally enjoyed your

1016
00:59:05,650 --> 00:59:02,690
writing style and you could give some of

1017
00:59:08,410 --> 00:59:05,660
the the people who write UFO books a few

1018
00:59:12,730 --> 00:59:08,420
English lessons that they could well

1019
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:12,740
need well thanks very much for your kind

1020
00:59:16,510 --> 00:59:13,810
words

1021
00:59:18,460 --> 00:59:16,520
be kind to you not so kind to some

1022
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:18,470
others and I'll probably get flak from

1023
00:59:22,359 --> 00:59:20,690
that but hey that's what I'm here for it

1024
00:59:25,359 --> 00:59:22,369
gets some flak okay

1025
00:59:32,290 --> 00:59:25,369
David bye now alright take care thanks

1026
00:59:35,589 --> 00:59:32,300
bye okay so here we are still with

1027
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:35,599
shattered reality on October 3rd 2017

1028
00:59:41,260 --> 00:59:38,210
and from our listeners corner I would

1029
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:41,270
like to present oddly enough

1030
00:59:47,109 --> 00:59:43,730
and it's really it's really more the

1031
00:59:51,550 --> 00:59:47,119
rule than the exception we have an

1032
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:51,560
artist today last last show we also had

1033
00:59:57,819 --> 00:59:54,290
an artist with it in the experiencer

1034
01:00:00,970 --> 00:59:57,829
corner and so it's it seems to be well

1035
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:00,980
known that creative people people with

1036
01:00:06,329 --> 01:00:03,410
open minds the creative type of person

1037
01:00:10,420 --> 01:00:06,339
is much more likely to have an

1038
01:00:11,259 --> 01:00:10,430
experience particularly a UFO experience

1039
01:00:14,529 --> 01:00:11,269
it seems

1040
01:00:17,380 --> 01:00:14,539
that the two major areas of people who

1041
01:00:20,409 --> 01:00:17,390
have the UFO experience are either

1042
01:00:23,949 --> 01:00:20,419
creative people like our next guest and

1043
01:00:26,259 --> 01:00:23,959
also military men who are perhaps in

1044
01:00:30,339 --> 01:00:26,269
planes or watching the skies they also

1045
01:00:35,649 --> 01:00:30,349
are very high in the ranks of people who

1046
01:00:40,539 --> 01:00:35,659
see UFOs so let me now introduce artist

1047
01:00:44,559 --> 01:00:40,549
and intuitive June Ponte hello June

1048
01:00:47,499 --> 01:00:44,569
- how are you I'm doing pretty well

1049
01:00:51,819 --> 01:00:47,509
today and hopefully you are too because

1050
01:00:56,079 --> 01:00:51,829
we would like to hear the full story of

1051
01:00:58,299 --> 01:00:56,089
your you have had two UFO experiences

1052
01:01:01,659 --> 01:00:58,309
one a little bit more significant than

1053
01:01:04,389 --> 01:01:01,669
the other but both quite amazing so

1054
01:01:07,929 --> 01:01:04,399
would you like to take us back to the

1055
01:01:10,269 --> 01:01:07,939
tell us the approximate year and what

1056
01:01:15,399 --> 01:01:10,279
you were doing during that day and then

1057
01:01:19,029 --> 01:01:15,409
take us into the encounter okay well it

1058
01:01:22,389 --> 01:01:19,039
was the spring of 1979 and at that time

1059
01:01:25,809 --> 01:01:22,399
I was an anti-nuclear activist and I'd

1060
01:01:27,759 --> 01:01:25,819
spent the day demonstrating and we were

1061
01:01:30,009 --> 01:01:27,769
blocking the entrance to the corporate

1062
01:01:32,409 --> 01:01:30,019
offices of Jersey Central Power and

1063
01:01:35,019 --> 01:01:32,419
Light Company and they were in Mountain

1064
01:01:38,829 --> 01:01:35,029
Lakes New Jersey so it was no business

1065
01:01:41,259 --> 01:01:38,839
as usual because they were the owners of

1066
01:01:44,349 --> 01:01:41,269
the Three Mile Island nuclear facility

1067
01:01:48,329 --> 01:01:44,359
and that had as you may remember a

1068
01:01:51,159 --> 01:01:48,339
dangerous nuclear accident very good yes

1069
01:01:53,859 --> 01:01:51,169
actually the worst in US history

1070
01:01:55,959 --> 01:01:53,869
anyway I was arrested with a few others

1071
01:01:58,899 --> 01:01:55,969
and we spent the rest of the day in jail

1072
01:02:01,659 --> 01:01:58,909
and mountain lake eventually my sister

1073
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:01,669
came and bailed me out we went to her

1074
01:02:08,529 --> 01:02:04,130
house in West Milford to calm down and

1075
01:02:10,839 --> 01:02:08,539
have computer so I still had to get back

1076
01:02:13,359 --> 01:02:10,849
to my home in Union City so my friend

1077
01:02:14,519 --> 01:02:13,369
Frank arrived late need me to drive me

1078
01:02:18,039 --> 01:02:14,529
home

1079
01:02:20,620 --> 01:02:18,049
we have this old army green Plymouth

1080
01:02:24,849 --> 01:02:20,630
Valiant and that he called mr. rhenium

1081
01:02:27,309 --> 01:02:24,859
and was a cool car but it didn't

1082
01:02:29,349 --> 01:02:27,319
go very fast we left my home around

1083
01:02:32,559 --> 01:02:29,359
midnight and we were driving down route

1084
01:02:34,779 --> 01:02:32,569
23 and Westminster and it was very dark

1085
01:02:38,140 --> 01:02:34,789
I don't think there were any lights on

1086
01:02:40,509 --> 01:02:38,150
that road at that time crisis focused on

1087
01:02:43,569 --> 01:02:40,519
the road and he was chatting away and

1088
01:02:45,539 --> 01:02:43,579
she liked to do and I was gazing out my

1089
01:02:49,900 --> 01:02:45,549
passenger side window

1090
01:02:54,210 --> 01:02:49,910
suddenly I see this enormous UFO it was

1091
01:03:07,269 --> 01:02:54,220
it was so big that just the size was

1092
01:03:10,690 --> 01:03:07,279
shocking and how big was it I don't know

1093
01:03:13,029 --> 01:03:10,700
it just it just went on forever and the

1094
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:13,039
weird saying creature wasn't in the sky

1095
01:03:18,849 --> 01:03:16,730
it was on my side of the road only feet

1096
01:03:21,009 --> 01:03:18,859
away from where the road ends and the

1097
01:03:25,630 --> 01:03:21,019
grass starts on the side of the road

1098
01:03:28,420 --> 01:03:25,640
and it was a one you know one lane going

1099
01:03:33,069 --> 01:03:28,430
in my direction route 23 at that top at

1100
01:03:37,390 --> 01:03:33,079
that point in 23 and this thing was

1101
01:03:40,359 --> 01:03:37,400
hovering and soundlessly about 50 feet

1102
01:03:43,930 --> 01:03:40,369
over this valley life depression in the

1103
01:03:47,140 --> 01:03:43,940
ground and it had red yellow and green

1104
01:03:50,769 --> 01:03:47,150
lights going around the rim and it was

1105
01:03:54,069 --> 01:03:50,779
shaped like classic round flying saucer

1106
01:03:56,849 --> 01:03:54,079
I fortunately or unfortunately it looked

1107
01:04:01,329 --> 01:03:56,859
like something off a comic book it was

1108
01:04:03,249 --> 01:04:01,339
so so like what you would imagine in

1109
01:04:06,970 --> 01:04:03,259
those days we call them flying saucers

1110
01:04:13,420 --> 01:04:06,980
really and it was so so Junie we would

1111
01:04:14,799 --> 01:04:13,430
say circular and circular shape larger

1112
01:04:18,069 --> 01:04:14,809
than a football field

1113
01:04:20,259 --> 01:04:18,079
yeah with a Coppola on the top or a flat

1114
01:04:22,180 --> 01:04:20,269
on the top and it had what I thought of

1115
01:04:26,109 --> 01:04:22,190
as a dome I guess it comes all the way

1116
01:04:30,819 --> 01:04:26,119
okay yeah yes and okay same difference

1117
01:04:35,289 --> 01:04:30,829
yeah so I think it was so shocking that

1118
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:35,299
my mind I was I was trying to take it in

1119
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:38,450
and then all of a sudden I heard this

1120
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:40,250
voice in my head that wasn't my own

1121
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:42,530
voice we all have our own voice in our

1122
01:04:47,770 --> 01:04:45,530
head right but yes yes I was hearing

1123
01:04:50,740 --> 01:04:47,780
another voice and it kept saying in a

1124
01:04:52,450 --> 01:04:50,750
kind of mechanical way it's a radio

1125
01:04:57,130 --> 01:04:52,460
tower that fell down

1126
01:04:59,290 --> 01:04:57,140
kept tilt in my head

1127
01:05:01,540 --> 01:04:59,300
every time it said it it was almost like

1128
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:01,550
automatic I would chop my head and try

1129
01:05:07,359 --> 01:05:04,130
to see that those rights around the rim

1130
01:05:10,060 --> 01:05:07,369
as your radio show that so now

1131
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:10,070
but my own voice in my head was saying

1132
01:05:13,390 --> 01:05:11,839
the other voice no it's not it's

1133
01:05:18,010 --> 01:05:13,400
different video child that fell down

1134
01:05:20,380 --> 01:05:18,020
there's a flying saucer so yeah it was a

1135
01:05:23,170 --> 01:05:20,390
very weird thing because I guess my mind

1136
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:23,180
was processing it and I don't understand

1137
01:05:28,780 --> 01:05:26,570
if it was you know how that that voice

1138
01:05:31,150 --> 01:05:28,790
came in my head I don't know with them

1139
01:05:34,210 --> 01:05:31,160
it was another part of me but whatever

1140
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:34,220
it was it was pretty pretty freaky in my

1141
01:05:38,530 --> 01:05:36,890
head as well as what I was seeing anyway

1142
01:05:40,630 --> 01:05:38,540
I wanted to see if my friends saw the

1143
01:05:43,030 --> 01:05:40,640
same thing I saw but I didn't want to

1144
01:05:45,339 --> 01:05:43,040
suggest to him what I saw because I

1145
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:45,349
really wanted to know if he saw anything

1146
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:48,650
so I said Frank look to your right do

1147
01:05:53,559 --> 01:05:51,650
you see anything and he looks over and

1148
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:53,569
he says holy crap is a flying saucer

1149
01:05:58,720 --> 01:05:56,210
we're getting the hell out of here so

1150
01:06:01,359 --> 01:05:58,730
Frank's glams his foot on the gas but

1151
01:06:05,530 --> 01:06:01,369
oldest geranium didn't go much over 45

1152
01:06:07,690 --> 01:06:05,540
so that didn't today so much good and I

1153
01:06:08,319 --> 01:06:07,700
was in a panic cuz this thing just kept

1154
01:06:10,030 --> 01:06:08,329
coming

1155
01:06:11,950 --> 01:06:10,040
you know I'm looking out the window and

1156
01:06:14,020 --> 01:06:11,960
we we just keep driving past it it was

1157
01:06:17,530 --> 01:06:14,030
like a bad dream just kept going past it

1158
01:06:19,750 --> 01:06:17,540
and that's it but finally it seems to

1159
01:06:23,290 --> 01:06:19,760
take forever to get past this thing but

1160
01:06:24,819 --> 01:06:23,300
we got past it I don't remember we

1161
01:06:26,890 --> 01:06:24,829
didn't know about this thing time in

1162
01:06:30,339 --> 01:06:26,900
those days or certainly I I did never

1163
01:06:32,380 --> 01:06:30,349
heard of that so I know what happened I

1164
01:06:36,550 --> 01:06:32,390
don't remember what time I get home or

1165
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:36,560
if anything weird happened but it's been

1166
01:06:42,220 --> 01:06:39,530
almost 40 years since that time and

1167
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:42,230
Frank and I still need yeah we still

1168
01:06:46,780 --> 01:06:44,089
talk about every time I see my buddy

1169
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:46,790
Frank miss geraniums gone but our

1170
01:06:52,770 --> 01:06:49,250
sonship is strong and we still talk

1171
01:06:55,870 --> 01:06:52,780
about it was a very very

1172
01:06:58,720 --> 01:06:55,880
shocking event since this was something

1173
01:07:00,490 --> 01:06:58,730
quite near the ground and quite near us

1174
01:07:03,550 --> 01:07:00,500
I could have walked over to it and

1175
01:07:05,710 --> 01:07:03,560
touched it or if that's frightening if I

1176
01:07:07,150 --> 01:07:05,720
choose that's high enough but you know

1177
01:07:10,030 --> 01:07:07,160
since it was in the depression in the

1178
01:07:10,599 --> 01:07:10,040
ground you know it was it was just right

1179
01:07:17,460 --> 01:07:10,609
there

1180
01:07:20,980 --> 01:07:17,470
frightening for sure very shocking and

1181
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:20,990
but I had you know I would see one but I

1182
01:07:25,780 --> 01:07:22,970
thought I'd see like a nice Pleasant

1183
01:07:29,530 --> 01:07:25,790
little lights in the sky but not so much

1184
01:07:35,170 --> 01:07:29,540
you know yeah well did you do you recall

1185
01:07:38,829 --> 01:07:35,180
having any dreams regarding this I don't

1186
01:07:41,770 --> 01:07:38,839
think so the only thing I can recall was

1187
01:07:44,170 --> 01:07:41,780
I you know I have always been frightened

1188
01:07:46,230 --> 01:07:44,180
of the dark but I attribute that more to

1189
01:07:50,170 --> 01:07:46,240
my intuitive side mediumistic

1190
01:07:53,500 --> 01:07:50,180
experiences and I have seen people in

1191
01:07:55,750 --> 01:07:53,510
spirit form and so you know a night

1192
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:55,760
without the lights on you know I didn't

1193
01:07:58,329 --> 01:07:57,920
have too many of those for many many

1194
01:08:02,109 --> 01:07:58,339
years

1195
01:08:06,910 --> 01:08:02,119
oh yeah you wear secret sisters under

1196
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:06,920
the skin I think one of the things I

1197
01:08:15,790 --> 01:08:10,490
remember is when streamers communion

1198
01:08:17,410 --> 01:08:15,800
came out that book here here me to death

1199
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:17,420
scared me to death

1200
01:08:24,550 --> 01:08:20,930
and it set me back way back to like the

1201
01:08:28,390 --> 01:08:24,560
terror I felt from this experience and I

1202
01:08:32,999 --> 01:08:28,400
understand entirely because the John Mac

1203
01:08:37,780 --> 01:08:33,009
book the the fellow who investigated

1204
01:08:40,689 --> 01:08:37,790
people who were abductees when I I could

1205
01:08:42,849 --> 01:08:40,699
not read that book I picked it up out of

1206
01:08:45,430 --> 01:08:42,859
the library and I would read like three

1207
01:08:48,189 --> 01:08:45,440
pages and I couldn't sleep all night it

1208
01:08:50,860 --> 01:08:48,199
was that affecting to me when I read the

1209
01:08:54,700 --> 01:08:50,870
the John Mac book about abduction

1210
01:08:58,329 --> 01:08:54,710
phenomena so you didn't have a a a

1211
01:09:01,660 --> 01:08:58,339
second UFO sighting that was a little

1212
01:09:03,309 --> 01:09:01,670
less dramatic but nonetheless real do

1213
01:09:05,459 --> 01:09:03,319
you want to just tell us about that and

1214
01:09:06,870 --> 01:09:05,469
we so much appreciate you being

1215
01:09:08,579 --> 01:09:06,880
willing to speak with us here on

1216
01:09:11,969 --> 01:09:08,589
shattered reality in the listeners

1217
01:09:14,129 --> 01:09:11,979
corner I'm happy to fruition because a

1218
01:09:18,140 --> 01:09:14,139
lot of people don't feel comfortable to

1219
01:09:20,450 --> 01:09:18,150
talk about these things but I know that

1220
01:09:23,430 --> 01:09:20,460
you like me

1221
01:09:27,989 --> 01:09:23,440
we've seen these things we know they

1222
01:09:31,229 --> 01:09:27,999
exist and I what I think is that people

1223
01:09:33,390 --> 01:09:31,239
who have seen and know that that there

1224
01:09:36,149 --> 01:09:33,400
are beings on other planets that there

1225
01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:36,159
are UFOs visiting us or living here

1226
01:09:43,559 --> 01:09:40,329
we seem to attract to each other I can't

1227
01:09:45,930 --> 01:09:43,569
tell you how many people I've met that

1228
01:09:50,249 --> 01:09:45,940
have seen something I I know people that

1229
01:09:52,169 --> 01:09:50,259
have had even scarier experiences than

1230
01:09:54,359 --> 01:09:52,179
this one and I think it's very

1231
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:54,369
interesting I think we do attract to

1232
01:10:00,000 --> 01:09:57,090
each other and I'm not sure why but um

1233
01:10:06,330 --> 01:10:00,010
the other Sun Daman Alford has shattered

1234
01:10:14,279 --> 01:10:06,340
reality you know what about that tight

1235
01:10:16,319 --> 01:10:14,289
butt oh yes so the other one I had an

1236
01:10:22,529 --> 01:10:16,329
experience I was quite young in Union

1237
01:10:24,750 --> 01:10:22,539
City and that one was a I was walking

1238
01:10:27,989 --> 01:10:24,760
home from the grocery store was a little

1239
01:10:32,009 --> 01:10:27,999
kid 11 12 maybe and I looked up and

1240
01:10:35,219 --> 01:10:32,019
there was a cigar-shaped object in the

1241
01:10:36,660 --> 01:10:35,229
sky and the weird thing was that you

1242
01:10:39,299 --> 01:10:36,670
know we used to have a lot of blimps

1243
01:10:41,910 --> 01:10:39,309
back in the late fifties you know

1244
01:10:44,339 --> 01:10:41,920
floating around going over to New York I

1245
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:44,349
guess the Goodyear blimp others and I

1246
01:10:48,529 --> 01:10:46,570
always found this a haunted creepy but

1247
01:10:51,660 --> 01:10:48,539
this was not a blimp it was very

1248
01:10:54,270 --> 01:10:51,670
elongated and kind of I can't explain it

1249
01:10:58,950 --> 01:10:54,280
it looked like an elongated tablet or a

1250
01:11:02,189 --> 01:10:58,960
cigar or something of an ape and it kind

1251
01:11:03,750 --> 01:11:02,199
of tilted every occasionally it was very

1252
01:11:06,959 --> 01:11:03,760
creepy and I almost look like something

1253
01:11:09,359 --> 01:11:06,969
that could fall and it was very silent

1254
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:09,369
and I remember it was a great day it was

1255
01:11:14,700 --> 01:11:12,130
cloudy but yet I could see this thing it

1256
01:11:18,990 --> 01:11:14,710
looked like a silvery gray metallic

1257
01:11:23,190 --> 01:11:19,000
thing and as a kid at that age I

1258
01:11:25,980 --> 01:11:23,200
that's neat looks like a car it didn't

1259
01:11:27,930 --> 01:11:25,990
scare me I guess it wasn't closed you

1260
01:11:30,270 --> 01:11:27,940
know I'm actually one scared me more

1261
01:11:31,740 --> 01:11:30,280
than a Qing I think because the blimps

1262
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:31,750
look like problems to me

1263
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:33,370
this thing just look like a cigar which

1264
01:11:39,390 --> 01:11:36,850
was yeah I don't know but yeah but and

1265
01:11:42,770 --> 01:11:39,400
you know up here where I live in Sussex

1266
01:11:47,820 --> 01:11:42,780
County now I've seen a number of the

1267
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:47,830
triangular-shaped UFOs

1268
01:11:52,230 --> 01:11:50,530
so yeah they're around and lots of

1269
01:11:54,150 --> 01:11:52,240
people are seeing them and if more

1270
01:11:57,630 --> 01:11:54,160
people talked about them maybe we'd get

1271
01:12:00,360 --> 01:11:57,640
some response from our government well

1272
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:00,370
we would like some answers and there are

1273
01:12:06,660 --> 01:12:03,850
people working very hard for disclosure

1274
01:12:10,140 --> 01:12:06,670
and maybe we'll have somebody on about

1275
01:12:12,410 --> 01:12:10,150
disclosure soon but June I just want to

1276
01:12:16,260 --> 01:12:12,420
thank you so much for sharing your

1277
01:12:18,510 --> 01:12:16,270
experiences with us and you know keep

1278
01:12:20,340 --> 01:12:18,520
your eyes on the skies and perhaps

1279
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:20,350
you'll have another experience we'll

1280
01:12:27,300 --> 01:12:24,370
have you back on but seriously thank you

1281
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:27,310
so much for joining us on shattered

1282
01:12:37,230 --> 01:12:30,970
reality but we're going to go now so bye

1283
01:12:40,140 --> 01:12:37,240
for now thanks take care okay so that's

1284
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:40,150
basically it for us here today at

1285
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:44,530
shattered reality hopefully next time we

1286
01:12:50,570 --> 01:12:47,290
come back to you miss Kate Valentine

1287
01:12:56,670 --> 01:12:50,580
will be with us we just finished numbers

1288
01:13:00,360 --> 01:12:56,680
56 if if things all work according to

1289
01:13:05,430 --> 01:13:00,370
plan our next guest is going to be the

1290
01:13:07,260 --> 01:13:05,440
very very well-known ufologists the

1291
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:07,270
person who's written a book on ufology

1292
01:13:13,670 --> 01:13:10,210
and has now written another book about

1293
01:13:18,090 --> 01:13:13,680
his experiences with shamanism and other

1294
01:13:22,790 --> 01:13:18,100
interesting areas and that would be dr.

1295
01:13:26,580 --> 01:13:22,800
John B Alexander who is also a retired

1296
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:26,590
colonel so we're going to welcome him in

1297
01:13:30,780 --> 01:13:28,570
a couple of weeks to shattered reality

1298
01:13:36,630 --> 01:13:30,790
if all things go well